Yudane vs Tangzhong (Water Roux) Method
April 09, 2020
| Recipe by Bake with Paws
A lot of questions have been raised as to what are the differences between Yudane and Tangzhong method. Here is a little clarification to clear up any confusion regarding the two methods. This is what I have picked up and learned so far.
Both Yudane and Tangzhong uses a method of precooking a small portion of the dough either by cooking or scalding. Cooking the flour causes the starch to gelatinize. This make the texture of bread soft, chewy and fluffy.
According to some bloggers, Yudane was invented by Mr Saito of Japanese flour company. Whereas Tangzhong (Water Roux) is a Chinese method.
Yudane Method:
Bread using this method is soft and stays fresh longer than most other ordinary homemade bread.
1. Dough uses 20% of total flour in the recipe.
2. Ratio of flour and water = 1:1
3. Boiling water is used to scald the flour (instead of cooking over the fire).
4. The scalded dough may only be used 4 hours later (minimum) or overnight in the fridge.
Note: Many people asked me why need to use only after 4 hours. To be honest I couldn't find the answer. But, from my understanding is to let the starch in the flour to gelatinize. The longer you keep the better the bread texture. It give more moist and chewy texture.
Tangzhong (Water-Roux) 湯種) Method:
1. Dough uses 7% of total flour in the recipe.
2. Ratio of flour and water = 1:5
3. Dough is cooked under low fire until it becomes thickened to a glue like texture.
4. The cooked dough can be used once it’s cooled down or you may also store overnight in the fridge.
I personally prefer Yudane over Tangzhong as I noticed that the bread using Yudane method stays fresh longer.
The above compilation is based on my research online and also my trial and error. This works for me but I am sure there are other methods that may be better which I will eventually discover. Please let me know if you have more information or tips that you would like to share.
Credit to Lynn Lim for the source article.
Labels:
Thank you! Will try yudane method next. 😊
ReplyDeleteMy pleasure :) Thanks for your comment.
DeleteTQ for yudane method. I normally use tangzhong but will give it a try since it seems easier.
ReplyDeleteHi, thank you for reading this post. Hope you will like it. Cheers :)
DeleteThe yudane dough can keep for how many day? I mean in the fridge
ReplyDeleteHi, I never kept more than 2 days. I am not sure exactly how many days. I would say it will be ok unless it goes bad.
DeleteCheers :)
Do you bake a new bread every 2 days? Eat ~350g bread/day? Wow! (probably you have a large family)
DeleteI bake every week, but freeze a portion of them - it keeps the bread fresh for unlimited(?) time.
After 5 days, my normal sourdough bread is still OK, I expect using ultra high hidration+tangzhong, it will be okay after 10 days as well.
Hi, yes I baked bread almost every 2 days. We eat a lot of bread at home and some give away to other family members.
DeleteCheers :)
¿Y el prefermento, lo ha utilizado antes?
ReplyDeleteHi, Thanks for asking.
DeletePreferment is old dough method. Please visit here to see more details.
https://www.bakewithpaws.com/p/bread-making-methods.html
Yes, I have several recipes using old dough method. Please search for Old Dough Method in my blog.
Cheers :)
Does letting the yudane sit for some time improve the taste as a Preferment does or can I use it as soon as it is cool?
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for asking. Good question. It is different from preferment dough as preferment dough contain yeast that will improve the flavour. To be honest I couldn't find the answer. But, from my understanding is to let the starch in the flour to gelatinize. The longer you keep the better the bread texture. It give more moist and chewy texture.
DeleteCheers :)
When I've done the yudane method (with whole wheat) of letting it sit for 4 hours, I've found that if you taste as it sits, it gets sweeter over time. I keep it hot the whole time in a warm oven (165F). Its just bland when first made, but as time goes on, it gains flavor from the enzymes breaking down the flour! (Peter Reinhart's "Whole Grain Breads" book has an excellent explanation of this!
DeleteHi, thank you very much for sharing and it is very good to know this.
DeleteCheers :)
I've tried both methods with different recipes. The Yudane method dough takes a lot longer to knead compared to the Tangzhong method. do you have this experience and do you know why? in terms of keeping quality and softness of bread there is not much difference.
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for reading this. I used to make bread using Tangzhong method before I explore to Yudane method. I couldn't really remember. Could it be more % of flour is used and have gelatinized?
DeleteCheers :)
The Chinese and Japanese written forms for Tangzhong and Youdane (yu-da-ne) are exactly the same 湯種. It seems that tangzhong is a loanword from Japanese (source: www.mdbg.net).
ReplyDeleteI am currently baking (sourdough) loaves using the tangzhong method with excellent results. I shall attempt the yudane method for comparison ;-)
ReplyDeleteHi, Thanks for reading this post. I have not tried Tangzhong on sourdough bread yet. I am excited to hear from you on the result differences.
DeleteCheers :)
Cheers :)
Hi, will this recipe work for pull apart rolls?
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for asking. Yes, some of my pull apart rolls recipes used these two methods.
DeleteCheers :)
I want to try Yudane. If recipe says total 260gm bread flour. How much to remove n how much water? If putting in room temp for 4 hrs , must i cover?
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for reading.
Delete260g X 10% = 52g
Yudane dough is 52g flour + 52g water.
Yes, please cover. The longer the yudane dough the better is it. It is best to leave overnight.
Cheers :)
Just checking. . . . you meant 260g x 20%= 52gms, right?
DeleteHi, thanks for checking. Thanks for pointing out the error. Yes, it is 20% of total flour.
DeleteCheers :)
Hi, I wonder if we can increase the percentage of yudane to say 30% to 40%? Thanks
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for reading this post and your question. I tried once using 25% of total flour from the recipe to make yudane dough. I found the bread is abit too wet. I think 20% is just nice.
DeleteCheers :)
Hi, I love your recipes on yudane as it yield excellent mouth feel. Do you happen to have panettone using yudane Method? I wonder if yudane Method can take the high fat, high sugar ingredients. Thanks
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks again. Maybe it will work. I have not tried using Yudane method on high fat and sugar.
DeleteCheers :)
Hello, your blog is very interesting, congratulations
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment and stopping by :)
DeleteThanks for explaining! Exactly what I needed!
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for reading and visiting Bake with Paws. Glad to hear this.
DeleteCheers :)
If I used 70g of flour and 70ml of water for yudane. Do I have to reduce the water used for dough by 70ml too?
ReplyDeleteHi, yes, you have to reduce. Water used in yudane dough is counted in part of the total hydration. Same as the flour too.
DeleteCheers..
Hi, I actually just tried making bread with the yudane method but it seems like it turned out too liquid-y instead of looking like your yudane method dough photo. May I ask you, what do you think is wrong with the dough?
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for reading this post. May I know which recipe that you tried? Are you referring to the yudane dough or bread dough? If your Yudane dough is too liquid then you may have added too much water. The ratio of flour and water is 1:1.
DeleteYou may go to any of my Yudane Method bread recipe for reference.
Cheers :)
Thank you for your explanation. I'll try the yudane method and see how the difference the bread is.
ReplyDeleteHi, you are most welcome. Thanks for reading this post.
DeleteCheers and happy baking :)
Thanks for sharing this information. I’ve tried the tangzhong method and it worked out as expected. I’ll also try the yudane method and compare the two.
ReplyDeleteFYI, the traditional Chinese characters for tangzhong are identical to the Japanese characters for yudane. Based on that observation, I’m inclined to characterize tangzhong and yudane as two variations of the same bread baking practice.
Hi, you are most welcome. Thanks for sharing too. It is good to know both are the same character in chinese. Just one found by Chinese and one by Japanese, prepare in different way but yield the same result.
DeleteCheers :)
Hi Bakewithpaws, thank for your share knowledge about bread making method. Please tell me temperature of water when using yudane method. Thanks a lot
ReplyDeleteHi, you are most welcome. I didn't take the temperature. I used boiling water. I immediately pour the boiling water to the flour once the water is boiled.
DeleteThanks for visiting Bake with Paws :)
Hi hi,
ReplyDeleteDo we need to adjust the quantity for flour and liquid in the recipe after taking 20% out to make yudane?
Appreciate your advise, thk you : )
Hi, thanks for visiting Bake with Paws. Yes, please adjust accordingly.
DeletePlease take the below link recipe as reference. Total flour used in this recipe is 325g.
https://www.bakewithpaws.com/2020/07/japanese-soft-white-bread-shokupan.html
Cheers :)
I have a challah recipe with a low hydration percent (around 47%). If using the yudane method, I would have to add around 1.5 cups of water to bring the hydration up to 75%, Will this negatively affect the original recipe? Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteHi, Liquid use in Yudane is also part of total hydration. So, you please cut down in main dough accordingly.
DeleteJust For example:
The bread recipe total flour used is 300g and hydration is 65% (195g water/liquid)
Yudane will be 20% of total flour which is 60g and you need 60g of boiling water.
So, you main dough flour will be 240g (300g - 60g) and water/liquid will be 135g (195g - 60g).
I hope the above explaination is clear.
Cheers:)
he total water required in your recipe is 200g. You need
Hi your explanations have been very helpful! I have a question regarding a recipe I wished to change to yudane, the recipe uses tangzhong and if I convert this to yudane I will be losing hydration. Does this require me to make up for the lost liquid by adding it to the dough instead?
ReplyDeleteHi, thank you for reading this post. Yes, just add the water to the main recipe. Please total up the water or liquid use in your Tangzhong recipe and you should use the same total amount of water/liquid in your new yudane recipe.
DeleteI hope the above is clear.
Cheers :)
Hiya, how would the yadane method work with non-kneading bread recipes?
ReplyDeleteHow would that impact the whole process?
Thank you!
Hi, thank you for visiting here.
DeleteI am not sure about non kneading bread using yudane dough because I never used this method for non-kneading bread. All my soft bread recipes using kneading method except open crumb sourdough bread.
Cheers :)